SP:     How did you get started playing ball?

TD:    I played in high school, of course, and I just loved it. I played basketball and a short stint in football too. I was recruited by several colleges, but I never went. I was signed out of high school which was common in those days. They liked to get a ballplayer at 16, 17 or 18 years of age and start them in the system. I know that college has probably replaced a lot of that today, but I think most major league clubs still like to get someone right out of high school and have them enter their system because they can teach them their way of playing. That's how I started, signed out of high school, and my first assignment was Cocoa in the Florida State League. I arrived there sometime during the middle of the season because I'd just gotten out of school (in June) and they'd already started their season in the spring.

SP: Was that considered an instructional league?

TD: No, that was a D league. Back then the lowest starting point was Rookie League, and the next step up would be D League, then C, B, A, then AA and AAA. Of course, they've consolidated all of them now. The Florida State League was a D league and a fairly good one.

SP: Was it a big step for you to go from high school to D ball?

TD: Oh yes! You were dominant in high school and when you entered class D you found out that everybody was pretty good. It was an awakening as far as your abilities. I played semi-pro ball in the summers during high school and the fellas would tell me, "This is just as good as minor league ball", so I felt like I wouldn't have any problems. After I signed, I found out that semi-pro isn't as good as minor league ball, it may not even be close!

SP: Were you signed by a major league scout?

TD: Hal Reisen, who lived in New Jersey, signed me. He was a full-time Cleveland scout. He had been at several of the games I had pitched in. There were several scouts I had spoken with from the Red Sox and the Yankees too.

SP: What would they tell you when they wanted to sign you. Would they give you an honest appraisal of your abilities?

TD: They'd never come right out and tell you they could see you pitching in the big leagues but they would tell you they thought you had the ability.

SP: So you finished the year (1957) at Cocoa and then went to Batavia (NY) in 1958. How did that come about?

TD: The way it usually worked was at the end of the season or during the winter, you would receive a contract, say, for a place like Minot (ND). But when you went to spring training, even though you had a Minot contract, that didn't necessarily mean you would go there. You would be placed according to where they felt you needed to be or what manager in spring training wanted you.

SP: I assume you didn't spend your winters training like they do now.

TD: Oh no, I went to work as soon as I got home. I had a friend who worked at a manufacturing company and I worked there in the off season.

SP: In spring training, did they divide the camp up or were you there with the guys in the majors?

TD: Cleveland players would spring train in Arizona and the rest of us would train in Daytona Beach. Daytona had the players from Class D to AAA. In spring training, you may play one day with the B club and the next with the AA club. I think they would go over the rosters each day and check your progression. A manager of the AA club might say, "I'd like to have a look at this guy". Then you'd pitch and he might like you or he might lose interest and you might be at another level the next game.

SP: So what classification was Batavia in 1958?

TD: Batavia was a Class D team.

SP: What was the NY-Penn league like in those days?

TD: It wasn't too bad. Of course, in those days the busses didn't have air conditioning or restrooms but the trips weren't too bad. The league wasn't a particularly strong league. The Batavia club was kind of a weak hitting, poor fielding club. If you were a pitcher for them, it was kind of a nightmare. It was nothing like the Selma club I played for.

SP: In 1959 you were with the Selma Cloverleafs of the AFL.

TD: Before we broke spring training that year, I was assigned to the Selma club. We were playing intra-squad games with clubs that were A and AA and we were beating them. We didn't lose a game. I knew when we left spring training that we were good. Before we broke camp I knew that we had the players.

SP: That Selma club had 5 major leaguers. Lipon had already been there, but Alvis, Brown, Edwards and Fosnow were just getting started.

TD: Those guys made it up to the majors within a couple years. There were quite a few guys that made it from that 1959 season. I remember Steve Barber. He had great stuff but he had trouble getting people out. He had a lot of strikeouts.

SP: He was a bit wild back then.

TD: Oh yeah. It wasn't really hard to beat him and score a lot of runs off him. He'd walk two or three and then he'd start aiming the ball and somebody would really drill one off him. He really had problems, but near the end of that season, they promoted him (to Amarillo) and the next year he was in the majors.

SP: And that first season with Baltimore he won 10 games and had a good ERA.

TD: Of course the Alabama-Florida League was a tougher league!!!!

SP: That Pensacola team (in 1959) had Barber, Bo Belinsky and Cal Ripken, Sr.

TD: I remember Bo Belinsky was in the same category was Barber: He threw real hard but had trouble finding the plate. In fact, I had trouble finding the plate at times.

SP: What was your best pitch?

TD: I had a good fastball, slider, and curveball, but the fastball was probably my best pitch. It made my curveball more effective. In Selma I came up with an effective slider toward the end of the season. It acted like a change-up.

SP: Who were the hitters that gave you trouble in the AFL?

TD: Montgomery had a fellow named J.J. Bethea who was hard to figure out. He'd hit the fastball, the curve, the change-up.

SP: He was the home run leader that year, tied with Pete Walski.

TD: There was another fellow named J.C. Dunn, with Dothan. He was a player-manager there. He and I had a good rivalry going. I feel that I got the best of him though. I remember he got a hit off of me one time when we were playing in Selma, and the next guy also hit and J.C. went to third. Doc Edwards came to the mound and Max Alvis did too. Doc said, "Look, I know they'll send the runner on first and when they do, J.C.'s gonna head home. He's dying to come home. After you throw the pitch, just step off a little bit. Instead of throwing through (to second), I'll let you have the ball. Max, you stay on third". It worked: The guy on first went, Doc threw the ball to me and Dunn was caught between third and home. Dunn just stopped and put his hands to his sides and gave up.

SP: The Selma pitching staff was very strong that year.

TD: We had Claude Pinder, who was an outstanding pitcher. I felt like Claude had the ability to go to the big leagues. He had a good fastball and slider and good control. He was used as a starter and reliever and always did a good job. Then we also had Gerry Fosnow, and he went to the big leagues. Gerry had a good breaking ball and outstanding control. He could spot the ball, kind of on the order of Tom Glavine. He didn't throw as hard as Glavine though. He didn't throw hard but it goes to show that the pin-point control is what counted, and what got him to the big leagues. Fosnow won a lot of games with us. We also had a guy named Bob Gordon who was a good pitcher, and a guy named Carl Morrow.

SP: As I remember, there were not more than 6 or 7 guys on the Cloverleafs that had a significant number of innings for the season. You guys must have had to start and relieve.

TD: Yes. Back in those days you had do it all. There wasn't any pitching 5 or 6 innings and giving way to a middle reliever. When you went out there, you were expected to go 9. Of course, you did get relief help but there wasn't the concept of middle reliever, short reliever, closer. Everyone had to relieve some. I did some relief work. One stint stands out. I don't want to give the impression that I'm tooting my own horn about this but I relieved in a game for Fosnow that was memorable. He pitched only one inning and I think it was Fort Walton that got 6 runs off him in that inning. I came in and relieved him and pitched 8 innings of no-hit ball. We ended up winning the game, which is even better. Fosnow went to the big leagues and I stayed in Selma!

SP: Were there any players that you thought were sure to make it to the majors that didn't?

TD: Well, Pinder was one that had such great stuff that I thought he'd make it. Another was Keith Williams. I just couldn't see any way that he wouldn't make it as far as ability is concerned. The ones that did make it, like Max Alvis and Larry Brown, were great players. It was very evident that Max would make it. Larry had all the tools needed to make it too. Doc Edwards was the same way. He had a good arm and was a good defensive catcher. He could hit too. Doc had a lot of baseball sense, and he'd been around a bit more than most of us. Doc and I were pretty close. Anyway, I knew before we left spring training that year that we were an exceptional club and we probably could have played in their A classification and won.

SP: Any idea why so many good players ended up in Class D that season?

TD: It was unusual. I think they were just kind of playing with the mix in spring training and it worked out that way. Back then, there were less major league teams and it was harder to get to the majors because there were less positions available than today.

SP: More good players were playing in the minors at all levels.

TD: Yes, you had to be exceptional to make it on a team, exceptional to get noticed, and exceptional to get promoted. I guess that's the way it is even on everyday jobs outside of sports. You know, the athletes today are much better trained than we were. They have access to better coaching and better organized leagues.

SP: Do you think that having Johnny Lipon coaching may have been part of the reason that so many good players ended up in Selma?

TD: Well Johnny was a good guy to play for. He was easy going and he was the type of fella that if he had confidence in you, that was all that was necessary. He'd give you the ball and say, "Go get 'em". I think I enjoyed playing for Johnny Lipon more than anybody.

SP: Let's go back to the season before Selma (1958). You were promoted from Batavia to Minot in the Northern League. What was prairie baseball like?

TD: Long bus trips, a tremendous amount of driving. The road trips would be to places like Eau Claire, Grand Forks, Winnipeg. We'd stay in the oldest, cheapest hotels in town on the road trips. We'd get $6 to $8 a day for meal money on the road and you could eat on that. It was hard but you could do it. Those were good days though. That particular league had cool weather. It would be real hot in the dead of summer but real cool in the spring. The first spring I was up there. we were snowed out for the first week or two.

SP: After your big year in Selma, you played one more season without much success.

TD: Well, after the 1959 season, I was faced with military obligations. Back then, they still had the draft. I was drafted around then and had to meet the obligation. There was an army reserve program open where you could go to 6 months active duty, so I entered the service at the beginning of December and did my service, followed by a reserve obligation of a weekend a month for two or three years. I think that was where I hit my stumbling block because I missed spring training in 1960 and I got to Burlington (Carolina League) during the season and I hadn't thrown a pitch all year. I was there a couple days and they put me in a game. The only throwing I had done was on the sideline. I immediately developed a sore arm and never got over it. Things were bad. I got to the point where I was wild, but not all over the place. My problem was getting the ball up to home plate. It was evident that I was having trouble and they sent me back to Minot to work it all out. I got to Minot and it was cool, of course. I was never able to get in shape. It was probably the worst place for me at the time. I don't use that as a excuse, that was just the way it was meant to be. That's the way I look at it. At Minot, toward the end, I wouldn't even warm up. I'd got right out of the dugout and right to the mound because I only had about 20 or 30 pitches in me at best and I didn't want to waste them. My arm really hurt.

SP: In those days, they didn't do much for you.

TD: There was no therapy and you didn't go to the doctor. As far as I was concerned, it was the end. My wife and I felt like we needed to make a change in our life and we did that by accepting an outright release from the ball club. Like I said, I don't use the sore arm as an excuse as to why I didn't go to the majors. Even so, I still had it in my mind that maybe I should have made it to the big leagues . As far as I know, I had received the best contract after the 59 season of any of us. I was contracted to Mobile in the Southern Association for 1960. I never made it there though. I left Fort Jackson in South Carolina and went directly to Burlington. Even though I was in Burlington, I was on the Mobile roster. In the meantime, I had made my way to Minot. Mobile called the organization and said, "Where is this guy?". They were holding a roster spot for me but I never made it there. I probably had the ability to go further than I did, but like a lot of players, something happens and it just doesn't work out.