JB:    (Looking at the team photo) I believe this is Smiley Fowler. Do you remember him?

Sr:     No I don't.

JB:    He wound up down in Graceville. He was from Graceville. Who is this, here? That's not (Holt) Milner, is it?

Sr:    No, that's Hodge, Mutt Hodge.

JB:    And that's Leon Hilyer.

Sr:    He's the president of a bank somewhere, I think in Troy. Or he was...

JB:    Yeah, he's retired now.

Sr:    The majority of boys in the league were from Andalusia this way ( to Dothan), in the Wiregrass (region).

Jr:     (Looking through papers) This is from when we did a tribute to Ottis back in Evergreen, in April, 1995, and I bought Daddy over here

         to Dothan and John Johnson of the Dothan Eagle interviewed him about Ottis. We made some ball caps for the tribute that say

         "Dothan Browns"

Sr:     Now on this list (from the tribute), the oldest player is Tommy Lyles of Brewton (Lyles played for Andalusia in 1940). He goes way

          back in that league. Scotty Byrne is down there in Brewton too. He played for Enterprise.

SP:    I met Scotty Byrne at one of the reunions.

Sr:     I think everybody in the United States has met him! I know they have in Las Vegas.

Jr:     Scotty Byrne was the Sheriff of Escambia County for 30 years or so, an

Ottis Johnson

JB:    (Looking at a team picture of a semi-pro Headland team).  Scott and I were just talking to Felix Vann up in Headland this morning.

         He had a clothing store up there for years. He was telling about how this group of boys (in the picture) played for nothing, and these

         others we hired to come play with us.

Sr:     Did you ever play under a different name?

JB:    No, never had to.

Sr     :I've had a half-dozen different names.  You couldn't make a living without doing it.  You'd only make $100 to $150 a month, so you'd

         play in the D league in the afternoon, then go play semi-pro at night under a different name.  You could make as much there in one

         night as you could for the whole month in D league.

SP:   You must have crossed paths with a bunch of other players doing the same thing, didn't you?

Sr:    Oh Yes! 

Sr:     They had those concrete stands.   You know, I enjoyed every minute of it, and I still do. We just got back from  Connecticut a week

         ago.  I've got a grandson playing league ball up there.  He plays for the Manchester Silkworms.  That league is all college players.

         Manchester's right outside of Hartford.  I saw two games up there, then a bunch of us chartered a bus and took it all the way up to

         Keane, New Hampshire, for a game on Saturday.  The people really back the team.  All the players have part-time jobs furnished by

         the towns, and the players live with the residents without any charge for rent.

SP:   Tell me how you got started playing ball.

Sr:    My daddy was a ballplayer, way back in the 20's, I suppose, and he used to tell me about it.  He rode a bicycle from where they lived,

         maybe 10 miles on a Sunday afternoon, to play.  Every community had a baseball team back then, and he used to ride that bicycle

         around to these places to play ball.  Even when I was growing up, he had a pretty good curve ball.  Most folks remember him as

         being a pitcher, but I don't remember him pitching, I remember him as an outfielder.  There were no fences at the ball parks back

         then, and me and Ottis used to tease him that if he could hit one out into the piney woods, he might get to second base.  He wasn't

         very fast!   He worked out at a Turpentine still in the rural area. He was the bookkeeper. Just about every Saturday afternoon, we'd go

         out in a field and shag fly balls all day long.  I used to go with him to all these ball games on Sundays too.  One Sunday, we went

         from Evergreen to Milton, Florida.  I might have been 13 or so, and they only had 8 players, so I wound up in center field.  I was just a

         youngster with his overalls cut off at the knees, barefooted, mind you, and I think I kind of fooled them when I got to bat.  I got a base

         hit.  I just started from there, I suppose.  We all loved baseball, it was born in us.  I played baseball ever since.  Before we moved

         back to the old home place in Evergreen, we lived in Atmore, and the high school there didn't have a baseball team.  I was in 7th

         grade then, and the coach there decided to start a team.  We all went about a block away from the school and took shovels, hoes,

         and rakes, built a backstop, got all the grass off the infield, made it all level.  I didn't get to play much because there were too many

         boys larger, older, heavier than I was.  Then I moved to Evergreen and they didn't have a team there.  I'd still go out and play ball every

         afternoon after school.  We'd go over to Georgiana, about 30 miles up the road, just us boys, no coach, no uniforms, and we'd play

         Georgiana.  Then the school finally picked it up.  Then around 1941-42, we had a team in town.  We'd just pick up anybody that

         wanted to play.  There was a manufacturing company there, made vehicles for the Army.  Every Thursday afternoon, the businesses

         would close early, and we'd go up and play each other.  Then in my senior year, I went to work at a service station, and the man who

         owned the service station was the manager of our baseball club.  He wanted me to go to Birmingham and try out for Cincinnati at a

         baseball camp up there.  I went there, it was a week long, and about the second or third day of the school, the man running the

         school called two of us over and set us down in the stands.  I thought, "Oh boy, we're gonna be sent home already".  I said to the

         other boy, "What did you do?", and he said, "I didn't do nothing".  I said, "That might be what this is about, we didn't do nothing

         worthwhile".  They told us to rest a while and that we'd done enough running, and that they knew we could run and field.  Well, we

         stayed up there the week and we made the cut.  We got to play against the Birmingham Barons that night, and afterwards they

         offered me a contract to play with some Class C club way up north of New York somewhere.  I had two weeks before I'd be eighteen

         years old and the draft was coming, so I figured I'd be better getting drafted where they knew me, not way up there, so I joined the

         Navy back in Evergreen.  Ottis was already in the Navy, and stationed in South Dakota.  I played softball while in the Navy.  We were

         overseas in England, just before the invasion of Omaha Beach, and we had a couple good softball teams there.  Well, our ship got

         ready to come home, and one of the sub chasers was going to stay over there.  They asked if I'd stay and play softball.  They

         wouldn't give me any duties, just play.  I said, "Sorry, but I'm going home!".  You know,  we never quit playing ball.  I have never been

         hurt, even the least bit, in the whole time I played. I did try catching without a cup once, and that was a bad idea.  I found out that

         don't work.

SP:    Did Ottis play professionally first?

Sr:     I did.  I didn't go to college, I got that job with Southern Bell.  After I came back from the war, it was December, and I didn't have a job

         yet, so I went back to Southern Bell and they hired me back right away.  Then we started playing semi-pro ball in Brewton, where I

         was working, and we had a pretty good team. Lots of pitching.  One kid had pitched for University Of Alabama.  Well, one day while I

         was doing phone repair work at this business, the manager said to me that the board of directors of the Brewton team wanted to talk

         with me about playing for them.  I said, "I don't know, I'm already getting off on Thursday afternoon to play and playing on Sundays, I

         don't think the telephone company's gonna go for that, but I will if you can convince them to let me".  A day or two later, they got an

         okay for me to play, so I told them that would suite me just fine to play for them. That was maybe three or four weeks into the

         season, and I played all that season. Oh, and I played under my right name, too!  Some folks don't think I did because they put out

         this book back then and they can't find my name in it.  The only proof I could show them was I got a lifetime membership in the

         baseball union that they have now.

SP:   Ottis was in school at Troy.  Did he plan to make a career of baseball?

Sr:     I think so.  He played for three years at Troy.

JB:    Where was he coaching when he was playing ball up there?

Sr:     His first year was in Lincoln, Alabama, near Birmingham.  He coached there.  Then he got a job up at Midland City.

JB:     I think he took Roy Knapp's place over there.

Sr:     The night he got hit, Dad and I were planning on driving over from Evergreen to Headland to see him after the game, and just as we

         were leaving, they had called Louise (Ottis' wife) and said they were taking him to the hospital.  I'll bet you the whole time I played

         baseball, I might have gotten hit three times, but Ottis was getting hit all the time.  He stood in there, he was tough.  He played

         football, you know.

JB:    They didn't have bating helmets either.

Sr:    You know, about three weeks after that,  we were playing in either Jacksonville, Alabama, or Thomasville, Alabama,  and they had a

         pitcher from Mississippi Southern that had already signed a major contract.  He could throw a fastball.  That ball came right on up

         and brushed the bill of my cap.  I struck out.  I didn't care where the pitches were, I was gonna swing and get outta there.  I got my

         three strikes over with and got out.

SP:   Lot's of players got hit playing ball.  When did you realize that Ottis' situation  was something else?

Sr:    After he was in the hospital about a week.

JB:    If they had the health facilities, the equipment, and the know-how that they do now, he might of survived it.

Jr:     You know Sam (the doctor who cared for Johnson) operated on his brain...

JB:    Well Sam would try anything.

Jr:     We did not not know that until we were settling my grandmother's estate and we had to go to Montgomery and get his death

         certificate...

JB:    And Sam signed it?

Jr:     Sam signed it saying that he operated on his brain.

Sr:    The surgery must have been pretty good because he (Ottis) hung on for a couple of days. They say he died of what we used to call

         "Wet Brain":  All the fluid going to the brain.

JB:    Yeah, that's the body's mechanism for protecting a brain injury for all the fluid to go up there.  You've got to get that swelling down.

Jr:      I can remember when we pulled up in front of that hospital, and we couldn't go in the hospital at that time, and Granny was with us.

         They had Ottis in that front room...

Sr:     Yeah, the front room on the right...

Jr:      We sat out on a swing out front of that hospital, and all I could here was that recessitator going up and down...

JB:     Was that Fraser-Adams Hospital?

Jr:      No, it was Moody Hospital.

JB:     Oh, that's where I was born.  That's right, Sam was affiliated with them.

Jr:      Well, Paul Flowers was our medical consultant (at the convalescent home where Edsel Jr. works) here for years and he knew Ottis'

          situation.  Actually, I had thought he was the one who treated Ottis, but he was not.

JB:     Flowers knew everything that was going on in Dothan, nothing got past him.

Jr:      He's a fine man.

JB:     Yeah, Paul was a dear friend.

SP:    Edsel, did the accident affect your desire to play?

Sr:     Only that one time when that ball took my cap bill off.  That's just part of baseball.  My grandson that I mentioned is up in

         Connecticut pitching, we had a talk with him at that because when he was a youngster playing little league, he used to come up to

         bat thinking, "It ain't gonna hurt me", and he tell folks, "My grandad's brother got hit, I wanna get hit too".  Well, we needed to have a

         serious talk right then and there with him about getting out of the way of that ball.  Now he realizes it, after he's hit several players.

         He's even hit the umpire!.

JB:    (Looking at another picture) You know, Sam Williams and Onion (Spencer Davis) roomed together for a while......

Sr:     Oh, I've hit against Onion...

JB:    Onion was a tough left-hander, wasn't he?

Sr:     That ball would start way up yonder then come right down...

JB:    He and Sam wound up coaching together in Bainbridge, Georgia, for a while.

Jr:     John here is the person who got me in touch with Jack Clifton...

JB:   You know, Jack's first wife died and he remarried a girl from here.  Jack's around 80 years old now.

Jr:    Tell Daddy about Jack Clifton.  You know, there is absolutely no animosity for him.

JB:   Jack works for Guy Maddox over there (Blakeley, Georgia).  Maddox had the First State Bank and he also had a peanut farm.  Jack

        worked for him until he retired.  He got elected to the school board over there, and he was Chairman of the school board.  His kids

        went through the school system there, and they all did well.  Jack's very well liked in Blakeley.  He's well respected.  Of course, he's

        retired now. He fishes and hunts.

Jr:     Did Jack come to Ottis' funeral?

Sr.    Yes he did.

Jr:     Do you remember seeing him there?

Sr:    That was a long time ago, I hardly remember where I am now !!

Jr:     Did you ever see the article about him and Ottis in the Dothan paper in 1995?

SP:   Yes, here it is (in the group of papers)

Jr:     Daddy and I went to the paper's offices and they interviewed us.

Sr:    You know, I remember when we moved back to Evergreen from Atmore, they had a real nice ball park there that all of us kids would

         play at.  I remember all the folks talking about Yam Yaryan, Virgil Trucks, Bill McGhee,  and a few others that played at that

         Evergreen ball field.  I can remember Snow's Barbershop there in Evergreen, had a huge picture on the wall of that old Evergreen

         team from back then,  I remember  them talking about playing Union Springs.  I was probably 14 or 15 years old back then.

SP:   Harry Rice was manager of the team there for a season.

Sr:    You know, Ottis was born in 1923, but when he was playing ball, he was listed as four years younger than he was.

Jr:     Yeah, you know that Tom Brokaw book, The Greatest Generation?  They talk about that.  Lots of guys took those four years that the

         war was on  and don't count them in there age.

Sr:    He was playing as a 24 year old when he really was 28.  They'd used to do that so that baseball would consider them young enough

         to move up the ladder.  From what I understand, Ottis was going to move up the next season.  He was having a great year.  He was

         a couple years ahead of me in high school, and anything they did for sports, they'd put Ottis and me on the same team.  There was

         no splitting us up, we'd fight them if they tried.  We were very competitive.  What a great life, I've enjoyed it all.

JB:    You know, when you were playing ball, you managed to stay out of trouble.

Sr:     I was causing a lot of trouble!  People tell me a lot of things I did that I don't remember doing!  A guy in Evergreen told us that one

         day after a game, we were all in the shower, and Ottis got down in a football position like he was going to charge at me.  I said,

         "C'mon buddy!", and Ottis came flying at me full speed.  I stepped aside and Ottis went head-first into a concrete wall.  Now, I don't

         remember that, but they say it happened.

Jr:     Ottis was stuck by lightning once, right Daddy?

Sr:    Oh yeah.  There were three of us.  We went out for a walk in the woods, looking for birds nests, and we found one in a Persimmon

         tree.  The boy that was with me and Ottis was leaning up against that tree, and Ottis had his hand on the boys shoulder. I was

         standing next to Ottis, and lightning hit that tree.  The boy had a baseball cap on, with the metal button on the top.  That lightning

         split the boys head and knocked Ottis out.  It blistered my feet all the way up to my knees.  Ottis stayed unconscious for about 24

         hours.  I ran down to a house and got somebody to come help us.  They brought up some water and I poured it on him, but it didn't

         do any good.

JB:    We didn't know about CPR in those days, did we.

Sr:     No we didn't. On Ottis' chest, there was a kind of picture of that Persimmon tree, and it stayed there for several months, then

         gradually went away.

JB:    That reminds me of a game over near Milton, Florida, where lightning struck the field and killed the shortstop, third baseman, and

         second baseman, and hurt the first baseman.

Sr:     That was in a semi-pro game, wasn't it?

JB:     Yes it was.  The next week we were playing down there in Rehoba and I was playing third base.  A big cloud came up and lightning

          hit up there pretty close to where we were playing.  I called time, and the coach asked me what I was doing. I told him that I had

          just read about those three boys getting killed  and I was about to get killed myself.  The umpire finally said, "You're right", and

          called us in.

Sr:     We had played that same team maybe three or four weeks before that happened.  Did you know that Ottis was ambidextrous?

         He could pitch left-handed just as good as he could right-handed.

JB:    Jack Carter, who used to pitch for the Dothan Browns, could pitch with either hand too.

Sr:    Ottis was born a lefty, but back then, folks didn't want to have a left-handed child.  Mother converted him to a right-hander.  In some

         of the games we played in, we'd be acting a fool, and Ottis would pitch three or four righty, then change over to lefty.  Boy, an umpire

         gets messed up with that going on!